Qualified as Beauty = Disqualified as Geek?
Are “hot nerds” bogus birds?
When asked what she enjoys, Miss USA contestant Alyssa Campanella – who went on to win the title – answered that she’s a true “history geek,” obsessed with the Stuart and Tudor era. “I watch Games of Thrones, I watched Camelot – I know those are fantasy but I also watch ‘The Tudors,’ So I’m a huge history geek.” She loves fantasy, she loves Star Wars, she loves science. Pretty nerdy, right? Not according to some people. (Let’s not debate semantics of “geek” versus “nerd” here – separate issue.)
While thinking about next month’s San Diego Comic-Con panel “Oh, You Sexy Geek!” we’d already compiled people’s responses on the “hot nerd” topic before a friend (via private message; otherwise we’d acknowledge and thank him here) brought my attention to our new Miss USA. Yesterday on Facebook and twitter, @ActionChick Katrina Hill mentioned that some people say “hot nerds” don’t exit, feeling that that being a nerd = nerdy interests + the pain of exclusion.
Ideally attractiveness has nothing to do with what you know, what you do, what you’re interested in, but the world doesn’t let things work that way, especially in
an era of breast augmentation and plastic surgery.
an era of breast augmentation and plastic surgery.
So how DOES attractiveness figure into credibility as a geek or nerd?
For some Red Lantern rage on this, see also what Nerdy Bird Jill Pantozzi had to get posted before she could let herself sleep: “Are you questioning Miss USA’s geek cred?”
On other sites, barely scratching the surface:
* FilmDrunk: Hot women pandering to nerds.
* Super Hot Nerds: Super hot actresses “I’m nerdy too”
* Behind the Scenes: Hot women: Nerds like us!
* Salon: Hot actresses: We’re nerds just like you!
* Synthesis: Having tits and liking Spider-Man isn’t shocking anymore. #Boobgate
* The Beat: Can you be a hot girl AND a nerd?
* ~liebedero: Response to “Can you be a hot girl AND a nerd?”
* David Brothers: No, you can’t.
* Otaku Journalist: I can’t be a hot girl and a nerd. Geek culture won’t let me.
* Stellar Four: What it means to be a geek girl.
* FilmDrunk: Hot women pandering to nerds.
* Super Hot Nerds: Super hot actresses “I’m nerdy too”
* Behind the Scenes: Hot women: Nerds like us!
* Salon: Hot actresses: We’re nerds just like you!
* Synthesis: Having tits and liking Spider-Man isn’t shocking anymore. #Boobgate
* The Beat: Can you be a hot girl AND a nerd?
* ~liebedero: Response to “Can you be a hot girl AND a nerd?”
* David Brothers: No, you can’t.
* Otaku Journalist: I can’t be a hot girl and a nerd. Geek culture won’t let me.
* Stellar Four: What it means to be a geek girl.
The list goes on without end. Most of these are from last month. Honestly, this comes up so often, we could potentially spend every Friday on “This Week in the War on Geek Girls.” We’ll revisit these issues again before my San Diego Comic-Con panel, “Oh, You Sexy Geek!”
ActionChick: How does attractiveness figure into “geek cred”?
science_mcgee: It shouldn’t be a factor at all.
JoeKlemmer: Shouldn’t, but it is a factor in anything/everything involving any living creatures. It’s hard wired into our DNA.
JayTomio: only a geek/nerd would ask ‘What are girls doing here?” – ha! It’s so silly.
robkixx: @ActionChick @science_mcgee Why cant people be happy for who they are and quit being fake. If you go to a con be yourself. #proudfanboy.
OnyxSparrow: It doesn’t. If you feel the need to PROVE you’re a geek in spite of another part of you, you’re not a geek. Like any other subculture, there will be the Elitists that will demand proof and the exploiters that will use it.
moviesbybowes: Whole thing solved: Geeky dudes resent attractive girls b/c latter are unattainable to former. Unfamiliarity breeds resentment.
RokDrummer: Geek aint about being beautiful its about being smart altho beauty would help spread the geek race…
jcj0nes: i dont know about attractiveness but sometimes I feel like Chris Brown at a feminist convention…
hdibner: I’m glad this is getting discussed. Still unsure how to articulate my opinions though.
mattstacey69: Looking forward to the panel!
FrenzyOfStars: I wish I could go to Comic Con just to go see @ActionChick’s panel! It seems so intriguing!
KnytFyre: As for is being a sexy geek pandering to men or empowering, that would depend on her reasons for dressing sexy. IMHO I believe that the sexy geek girl is more empowered by her cos-play. Just look at their reaction to the attention given. BTW, props on running a panel to encourage an intelligent discussion about this.
justinashworth: what I wonder is, why are we picking stereotypes to fit in to? Why can’t we just be our own true selves? and if that means blending elements of subcultures in various quantities, so be it. I’m not one or the other.
Eridanus: No question: geeks are attractive by definition.
RSJoeDouglas: that is 100% happening and about 2 min in with ones rockin’ the look you’re like, oh.. #brainsmakethegirlnotglasses
JayTomio: in my mind most girls who may get attention for “geek cred” would get it otherwise. Fine is fine. let’s be honest, from what i’ve seen, it’s not a wave of what most people would call ugly who get called out.
borticusmaximus: Things are just better when a pretty person says or does it!
mschrader1971: sometimes it just does.
Leone72: Would that not be considered some what of a complement in regards that someone thought she was attractive?
Sean MyIntyre: interesting
Robert Aoidh: Some of the biggest nerds I have ever met were in the 3rdRanger Bat…paaaaiiin lol
David H. Ampton: Cool. Although this seems obvious, sexiness isn’t anti-nerdy or anti-geeky it’s more like… one of many interests. And that doesn’t exclude having an interest in being sexy.
Tonie Miller Auer: I love being a nerd and talking with guys (who put my nerdiness to shame because they know way more about stuff than I do.) I think the hot nerd girls at the cons are awesome and occasionally, I can be queen of the dorks, too. 🙂
Charles Piner: Maybe I’m one of those odd old school types, but I tend to not look at looks, but more at actions. I see geeks and nerds of all types, and the best ones (including some of my friends), are simply the ones who know how to carry on a conversation about Star Wars, can play for hours in Dragon Age, or throw on a costume and walk around a con for a few hours. Geeks and nerds can be sexy or not, but it all boils down to what’s in your heart and mind.
Arturo R. Garcia: I wouldn’t say they can’t exist, but my question would be, what did these “hot nerds” do when somebody who wasn’t included in that body standard was mocked?
Jennifer Lawrence Wurzer: Hi Katrina…I have been thinking about this alot since you introduced this subject (and fake fan girls) on twitter a few days ago (I am @queenofmeh BTW) and here are my thoughts… (continued on Facebook)
Arturo R. Garcia: It’s also an issue because it’s a slippery slope from “hot people can be geeks” to “only hot people will be taken seriously while getting to be geeks.”to_paraphrase: @ActionChick do you think the increased use of “booth babes” at cons & such has anything to do w/the increased popularity of this question? while I can understand the frustration an “attractive” #geekgirl may have about proving she’s a geek, it’s also equally frustrating that [someone’s] a more believable geek solely because [they’re] fat and ugly.
ActionChick: The big shame is when any woman at a booth could get mistaken for a “booth babe,” @to_paraphrase.
TommyMariano: @ActionChick @to_paraphrase that is bad!
to_paraphrase: It is bad and it happens a lot.
nanabananaana: 🙂 agreed RT @za7ch @to_paraphrase @ActionChick The whole “booth babe” concept is both dumb and reprehensible… (cont) http://deck.ly/~L5i8a
sa7ch: @to_paraphrase @ActionChick @nanabananaana The whole “booth babe” concept is both dumb and reprehensible. Patriarchy is dumb. Smash it? Yes.
ULtiMatE_NeTrA: @ActionChick @to_paraphrase wow
ChaoticScholar: Do you think Booth Dudes would draw women gamers?
chrisjmcclure: in most industries it is easy to tell who is a professional sales woman & who is a babe booth;
to_paraphrase: what I was trying to ask is do you think “booth babes” contribute to ppl thinking women aren’t real geeks? I mean, I know the damage it causes for women working in the gaming/comic industry, but I was wondering in general. porn & gaming notwithstanding
GuotamYzmar: I’m honestly not a fan of booth babes. I don’t do nerdy s*** to see titties, that’s what my $10 suit and fake mustache are for.
ActionChick: I didn’t even know the Miss USA pageant had come around again. So the winner is self-proclaimed science/history geek?
Shane_For_Wax: Supposedly she has a liking of Star Wars amongst other things.
jonfun: Yeah. RT @ActionChick I didn’t even know the MIss USA pageant had come around again. So the winner is self-proclaimed science/history geek?
bonniegrrl: @ActionChick: Miss USA loves #gameofthrones & #starwars too!
GeekyJules: Yes. And is speaking up for evolution: http://s.tt/12Hs0
aboynamedart: Apparently she’s also into Game of Thrones.
jordanbartel: who dates that dude who was once on “The Tudors”!
the_frontera: she’s actually a rather bookish rocket scientist who enjoys The Hobbit and dresses up as Sailor Moon at cons
MickieMous: So I’ve heard. Just proves #geekgirls rule RT @bonniegrrl: @ActionChick: Miss USA loves #gameofthrones & #starwars too!
tragedyman: Much as I hate to say it, when a Miss USA calls herself a geek, my first thought is “bandwagon hopper”.
LordComet: I’ll belive that when i see it…those ladies are pretty pictures with personalitys of ironing board..i fear there are no geeks amongst them:(
Shane_For_Wax: @bonniegrrl @ActionChick there’s a geek test we all have to pass to be official.The_Flocco: anybody that can walk in a bar and get free drinks all night shouldn’t constitute as a ‘geek’. ‘less they’re doing ppl’s hmwrk
SizzlerKistler: @The_Flocco I’ve definitely fit into that category in some bars. Damn. There goes my geek cred. @ActionChick
TheNerdyBird: @The_Flocco Why exactly do you say that? Are geeks only supposed to look a certain way? @actionchick
MetronomePics: @The_Flocco @ActionChick Agreed. Free drinks = Cool. Cool does not equal Geek!
teresajusino: @The_Flocco I dunno, I bet China Mieville & Felicia Day could get free drinks all night. Wouldn’t question their geek cred. 🙂 @ActionChick
trtx84: @The_Flocco To say an attractive woman can’t be a geek implies that geeks must be unattractive. Seems counter-productive. @ActionChick
The_Flocco: people use the term as too endearing: http://t.co/3LJxuxk
trtx84: @The_Flocco It also perpetuates the harmful stereotype that attractive women only succeed because of their looks. @ActionChick
The_Flocco: @ActionChick i love what you do, and don’t envy your job in the slightest lol.JoshRosenau: Yes, folks, more Miss USA contestants would do nude photos than teach evolution.
MetronomePics: @JoshRosenau well thank God. hehehe
science_mcgee: @JoshRosenau Maybe they should take an evolutionary biology class to learn where those boobs of theirs came from…
zenfakor: “@ActionChick: RT @JoshRosenau: Yes, folks, more Miss USA contestants would do nude photos than teach evolution.” That’s sad.
LordComet: Sad huh….but on the + side we get to see boobies ^_^
BoArthur: I have to say that’s one thing I love about my faith. We have -no- problem with anything science comes up with.bonniegrrl: @ActionChick: aren’t we all SELF-PROCLAIMED geeks? Or can we get certified-geek status now? 😉
189. elizabeth_ann: @bonniegrrl i want to be certified!!
DeathOfAnalog: Miss USA #alyssacampanella claims her passion is space exploration, first Trekkie supermodel, besides Nimoy, ofcourse?
MetronomePics: @bonniegrrl @ActionChick where do we get certified!
bonniegrrl: @Shane_For_Wax @actionchick: the only geek test I know how to pass is the Voight-Kampff Test.
berenjones: @bonniegrrl @ActionChick I’ve filled out my application forms in triplicate. I can haz certified-geek status now?
iambeelzebabee: what determines/certifies geek/nerd status?
brotherhalo: @bonniegrrl @ActionChick I think there’s an exam for that. And you have to maintain it every few years, lest you lose certification.sfuller94: what’s not right is when popular folks use the word ‘geek’ to further their popularity. Sad….
QuirkyTonya: I have dated nerds before and the guys tend to want to prove to themselves that they are smarter then geeky me. They dumped me.
mjarbo: it’s a possibility. I met a perfect 10 at #E3 that was a total comic and movie geek.
LordComet: Was she on the page or a real person?:)ActionChick: First? RT @tragedyman hate to say it, when a Miss USA calls herself a geek, my first thought is “bandwagon hopper”.
MetronomePics: @tragedyman Yeah, its way cool to be a geek!
CrashRyan: @bonniegrrl You pay for it in lost lunch money and suffered wedgies.
aboynamedart: I think it’s worth asking: what did all these “sexy geeks” do back in HS if they saw “non-sexy” geeks getting bullied?
GeekyJules: Wait? So unicorns (pretty geeks) do exist UNLESS they are Miss USA. My arse. I’m so done with this debate. Poor girl
GaryHamrick: @mjarbo but the term “perfect 10” is subjective.
GeekyJules: Last thought: All those who are questioning anyone’s cred are just as bad as those who bullied them. Pathetic.
GaryHamrick: and it’s possible that she is misusing the term geek or using a meaning other than is commonly used now.
WorkSuxAlot: Can we stop “is he a geek? is she a geek?’ Standardized test and tattoo a result on them. Tired of it all
thisisbree: @tragedyman Honestly, I think I’d have a similar reaction.
GaryHamrick: Seems like the term has evolved over the past ten years.
ActionChick: RT @GeekyJules Last thought: All those who are questioning anyone’s cred are just as bad as those who bullied them. Pathetic
Doc_Rogers: since when did being a geek become the trendy, hipster thing to do? Thanks Apple. -Sent from my iPhone! Haha!GaryHamrick: @aboynamedart @ActionChick Absolutely worth asking! I’ll go a step further, I bet a lot of them would admit to have been geek in HS.
jenniferjoseph_: @aboynamedart @ActionChick I wouldn’t call myself sexy but ppl don’t seem to want to punch me in the face when they look at me so… (1/2)
jenniferjoseph_: @aboynamedart @ActionChick I used to stick up for anyone who was bullied whether geeky or not. People listened to me for some reason. (2/2)
Tekknight: Interesting topic being raised by @Actionchick (as always) women and geekdom. To me its hard to expound upon in tweet form
aboynamedart: @jenniferjoseph_ Thank you for sharing that, very much. @ActionChick
aboynamedart: @GaryHamrick Maybe. But I think a disconnect comes from having the interests w/out dealing with the bullying. (1/2) @ActionChick
aboynamedart: @GaryHamrick I wouldn’t say it makes them “less geeky,” but recognition of that privilege would help bridge that divide. @ActionChick
maradel1: @aboynamedart @actionchick it shows a shift in social acceptance like my UK HS us geeks were the popular crowd, ditch the jocks & plastics
aboynamedart: @maradel1 Was that an overall thing, or were the geeky circles just large enough to make bullying “not worth it”? (1/2) @actionchick
aboynamedart: @maradel1 I don’t doubt your experience, but jocks are still presented in media as being aspirational figures vis-a-vis geeks. @actionchick
jenniferjoseph_: “@aboynamedart: Thank you for sharing that, very much.” <You’re welcome! I am against bullying of any sort. @ActionChickLordComet: If she claims geekhood we will have to claim BS.
ActionChick: I don’t know anything else about her. Miss USA
LordComet: funny that neither does anyone else.
bonniegrrl: @lordcomet: why is it so hard to believe that Miss USA is a Star Wars fan? Star Wars is for EVERYONE!
HJBiss83: It is 🙂 RT@bonniegrrl: @lordcomet: why is it so hard to believe that Miss USA is a Star Wars fan? Star Wars is for EVERYONE!
OneEyedJedi: @bonniegrrl @ActionChick @lordcomet Thank you Bonnie! I’m getting really tired of people questioning someone being a geek!
loquaciousmuse: @LordComet She is a history buff who loves the Tudors, Camelot & Game of Thrones and is in support of Medical marijuana My favorite Miss USA in the history of ever. I should say self admitted history buff and fantasy geek
GaryHamrick: @LordComet she may simply be referring to her interests in a particular subject. Do her grades then reflect her geekdom.
HumerusOnline: Let @ActionChick challenges Miss USA to a GeekGirl Interview! Then we’ll know RT @LordComet If she claims geekhood we will have to claim BS.Pegaso_Saint: what is a sexy geek anyways? Different levels of geekyness from people of different ranges of physical appearance. So… That.
GaryHamrick: @aboynamedart @ActionChick ach, i ran out space. I meant that most WOULDN’T have admitted to being geeks in high school.
talking_biscuit: @aboynamedart @ActionChick Trick question, since there’s no such thing as a sexy geek in high school. Sexy geeks are late bloomers 🙂
johnmarkos: @bonniegrrl @GeekyJules @ActionChick Yep, geekdom is non-selective. We all get to be geeks if we want.
Shane_For_Wax: Is it not possible for a beauty pageant contestant to be a geek too?theroseinbloom: god, the way people are replying to this discussion is just convincing me that people are assholes.
aboynamedart: For the record, I don’t doubt Ms. USA’s fandom. I just wonder how it factors into our communities that much.
Marsia: I walked both worlds in JHS and kicked a lot of ass. In #BronxScience HS we were all geeks, even the cool kids, so no bullying
NerdRage42: @bonniegrrl @actionchick Pft. Since when does being a geek mean it’s an exclusive club? It’s not like it’s a learned skill like golf!
jenniferjoseph_: So this whole Miss USA being a geek thing..who cares if she’s a bandwagoner? Maybe she is but I bet no 1 would question it if she were ugly.
johnmarkos: @bonniegrrl @ActionChick Yes, “geek” (or “nerd”) is always self-proclaimed; the honorific “hacker” is bestowed by others.
jenniferjoseph_: Lady geeks exist & have for a long time. Why is this shocking to people?
teresajusino: @theroseinbloom What’s sad is this reflects how they feel about themselves. “HOT ppl aren’t geeks, only NOT-hot ppl like me!” @ActionChick
teresajusino: @theroseinbloom @ActionChick I’m a chubby girl, but I also think I’m pretty & I’ve had hot guys on my ass. 🙂 And I’m a geek. So there.
3. OneEyedJedi: @Shane_For_Wax @ActionChick It’s possible for anyone to be a geek!
ActionChick: Not according to some. RT @johnmarkos Yep, geekdom is non-selective. We all get to be geeks if we want.
jenniferjoseph_: In fact, here are some lady geeks who are quite a bit more popular than me: @TheNerdyBird @bonniegrrl…so get over it already!
Shane_For_Wax: @OneEyedJedi Yes it is and should be. Why should we divide ourselves even more by selecting who can and cannot be a geek? @ActionChickSexy Geek Alyssa Campanella
OneEyedJedi: I can’t believe this is even an issue. I think liking @Starwars and being a geek makes a woman MORE qualified to be Miss USA!
tragedyman: @MetronomePics @ActionChick Honestly, I don’t know. How much of The Rise Of The Geek is changing attitudes, and … http://tmi.me/bTJSo
aboynamedart: @teresajusino @theroseinbloom @ActionChick I think the bigger question is: who’s defining “hot” in this context?
GaryHamrick: I think the biggest thing is that, until a few years ago, “geek” was a negative thing to be called and it’s not really anymore.
LordComet: I’d like to think of being a geek like being a chosen..a being of awesomeness the selected…
DeathOfAnalog: @johnmarkos re: Yep, geekdom is non-selective. We all get to be geeks if we want “Yeah, i woke up and i went geek!”
NerdRage42: I had some douchebag geek guy come into my music store, read my “nerd” button & told me I wasn’t a nerd. Cuz…he can tell?
GaryHamrick: thus a lot of people who would never have admitted to being geeky about something something are now comfortable doing so
aboynamedart: @NerdRage42 More than likely, he’s been told that can’t happen. Unacceptable, but that’s been a pop-culture message for years. @actionchick
NerdRage42: @aboynamedart @actionchick hasn’t anyone seen “She’s All That”?
aboynamedart: @NerdRage42 @actionchick I’d have to rewatch it, but didn’t it hinge on RLC being “normalized”? Good example of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl.
aboynamedart: @NerdRage42 And, compare that film to Saved By The Bell. Screech was practically de-humanized at times.
NerdRage42: @aboynamedart @actionchick It was kind of lame. Point is, geek girls can still be hot. Msg they missed was “without compromising geekdom”Marcela216: Went into a comic shop today & got ignored while clerks fawned over my bf. Women constantly get their nerd cred questioned.
amy_geek: @Marcela216 I’m lucky that my comic book store is staffed by two awesome nerd girls and two helpful dudes.
aohora: @NerdRage42 Cuz… he never wants to get laid in his entire life. #WTF? @actionchick
csdaley: @OneEyedJedi @amy_geek @ActionChick @Marcela216 No comic store for me. It makes me sad. It’s why I love digital comics so much.
robkixx: @Marcela216 The only girls I see when I go to a comicbook store are next store at tanning beds lol.
robkixx: Everytime I date a woman they dont understand why I read comics and collect action figures or go to cons. Proud to be a fan boyNerdRage42: @aboynamedart @actionchick yeah. The 90s were weird.
theroseinbloom: @teresajusino DITTO. I’m the same but I’ve been thin AND fat, and hot, in-demand guys have wanted me BOTH ways, BC I’m a geek. @actionchick
aboynamedart: @NerdRage42 No argument there. I think there’s a concern that “hotness” will become some sort of pre-req. @actionchick
theroseinbloom: @teresajusino @actionchick it’s just so sad that a. they feel this way and b. they’d say it to us. “YOU’RE NOT HOT! YOU’RE A GEEK!”
chronicgeek: I was excluded from so much I don’t want to exclude others, but me being a geek in 80′ & 90’s meant lots of being beat up,
amy_geek: @tragedyman What annoys me is that if it were a Mister USA contest, no one would probably question “geek cred.”
LordComet: @HumerusOnline @ActionChick AC will pwn that beauty queen something fierce and she will do it epicly 🙂
aboynamedart: @amy_geek I think he’d be under a different set of pressures, though. @ActionChick @tragedyman
chronicgeek: And brutal, emberassing bullying. I hope that if geeks are pop. now that those “sexy” geeks do not exclude others
csdaley: @amy_geek @ActionChick @tragedyman Happens to my wife all the time which is ridiculous. She reads them, she makes money, perfect customerteresajusino: @aboynamedart @theroseinbloom @ActionChick It shouldn’t matter. My point is that being a #geek shouldn’t be defined by looks at all.
amy_geek: @aboynamedart Hmm, yeah – fair enough. @actionchick @tragedyman
chronicgeek: I mean I have heard “geeks” bully those they see as “nerds”. Wtf. Sickening.
ebrown2112: @amy_geek @ActionChick @tragedyman I will always support my Geek Sisters: http://nyti.ms/eZO1aB
teresajusino: @theroseinbloom @actionchick Right. Stop insulting me & stop insulting yourselves & stop insulting Geek Culture. We’re all better than that.
theroseinbloom: @teresajusino @actionchick YES. Can the geek cred dick-measuring contest be DONE now?
maradel1: @aboynamedart @actionchick there were no ‘jocks’ or ‘cheerleader’ types so clicky groups just didn’t exist, more of an even playing field
aboynamedart: @teresajusino No, but it can affect one’s experiences, and hearing those stories, I think, helps the convos. @theroseinbloom @ActionChick
NerdRage42: It doesn’t matter if a girl is a “real” geek or not…be a dick to her, then you’re just a dick. #labels
JediiRaccoon: SW is 4 everyone! @bonniegrrl @ActionChick @lordcomet: why is it..hard 2 believe that Miss USA is a Star Wars fan? Star Wars is 4 EVERYONE!
maradel1: @aboynamedart @actionchick agreed media has a massive part to play in enhancing stereotypes which results in bullying more so in US than UK
teresajusino: @aboynamedart True. I think geekiness stems from feeling outcast & people assume that can ONLY be due to looks @theroseinbloom @ActionChick
theroseinbloom: @aboynamedart I don’t give a f** who’s defining it. Neither geekness nor hotness should depend on looks. @teresajusino @ActionChick
teresajusino: @aboynamedart People feel apart for many reasons & it’s not up to anyone to determine what they “should” be. @theroseinbloom @ActionChick
theroseinbloom: @teresajusino yeah, some people can’t seem to get they were outcast bc they’re ASSHOLES, not bc they’re geeks. @aboynamedart @ActionChick
aboynamedart: @teresajusino There’s a lot of reasons, true, but media certainly feeds that narrative. @theroseinbloom @ActionChick
ActionChick: I keep seeing some say feeling outcast is key to being geek or nerd. So if geeks/nerds reject you…?
GaryHamrick: @teresajusino @aboynamedart @theroseinbloom @ActionChick Though for whatever reason some sadly go out of their way to make others feel apart
theroseinbloom: @GaryHamrick yeah, and that is exactly what these people insisting “YOU’RE NOT A GEEK” are doing. @teresajusino @aboynamedart @actionchick
JoshuaStone: There’s always going to be someone who thinks they are geekier than you, so therefore to them your not a geek. So why question.
LordComet: Your an outcast until you are rich(which geeks and nerds usually become) then your not anymore:)
tenindenmark: SOL? lol RT @ActionChick: I keep seeing some say feeling outcast is key to being geek or nerd. So if geeks/nerds reject you…?
SweatnqBullets: that makes you an übernerd/geek I guess?
JoshuaStone: If someone feels there a geek or a nerd then accept it. Unless they are stupid, screw the stupid.
GaryHamrick: wouldn’t be anything new for them to exhibit such behavior & the ones who did so would say it was exhibited toward them first.
Pegaso_Saint: I actually I’m a big geek Yet feel rejected at the comic book shops. Either on a Marine uniform or looking like I a hobo.
aboynamedart: @theroseinbloom @GaryHamrick @teresajusino @actionchick I agree, but it doesn’t happen out of the blue. Yrs of conditioning at work.
tonybalogna: Being a geek isn’t about what others think, it never is. If “nerds” are only trying to be outcasts they are posers.
DaveMaulding: That’s ridiculous to HAVE to be an outcast to be a nerd/geek. Turning what might have been persecution into elitism is stupid.Nightwyrm: today’s @GuerrillaGeek culture post: Unicorns vs Creepers: The Ongoing Battle for Geek Culture http://grla.tv/l2ZeeE
Tweek_Robles: Its funny there’s controversy over the right to be a geek/nerd. RT @ActionChick: I keep seeing some say feeling (cont) http://tl.gd/b8fqru
Verland_Lives: Then time to run with the #vampires.
Grizzlefur: I think they’re confusing geeks and emos.
DrSideSteppin: “Hot” geeks, girls and guys, in my experience are outcast by the in crowd for being geeky, and by geeks for being popular.
GaryHamrick: @aboynamedart @theroseinbloom @teresajusino @actionchick absolutely. not to mention the actual history of the word.
theroseinbloom: @aboynamedart that’s sad, but there’s no reason I should let myself be defined by THEIR issues. @GaryHamrick @teresajusino @actionchick
aboynamedart: @theroseinbloom On that I agree completely. We as guys have to re-eval our own biases. @GaryHamrick @teresajusino @actionchick
theroseinbloom: @GaryHamrick @aboynamedart @teresajusino @actionchick if we’re playing etymology, then we should all get mad when somebody calls us nice.
GaryHamrick: @theroseinbloom @aboynamedart @teresajusino @actionchick Mr. Dylan said it best, “I”m myself, whoever that is.”
aboynamedart: @GaryHamrick He also said, “Victoria’s Secret ad? Sure, I’ll do one.” #levity @theroseinbloom @teresajusino @actionchick
GaryHamrick: @theroseinbloom @aboynamedart @teresajusino @actionchick I get pissy everytime someone does. Might be why people think I am angry a lot.
theroseinbloom: yeah, WHY are they passing on the very thing that made their lives hell?!
GaryHamrick: @aboynamedart @theroseinbloom @teresajusino @actionchick I have a bias toward red heads that I will not re-eval. 😛 j/k
theroseinbloom: @GaryHamrick well to you I say, get with the times. The language has evolved. Keep up. @aboynamedart @teresajusino @actionchick
theroseinbloom: @aboynamedart not a guy thing. Plenty of girls are bitching about it too and it needs to stop. @GaryHamrick @teresajusino @actionchick
besottedlovers: @johnmarkos: Don’t agree. People see me like everyone; but, once My Geeky side comes out; instantly hated. Not sure why? :Os
Tweek_Robles: @amy_geek @ActionChick Isnt CLASSism what geeks & nerds have mostly fought against, yet now ppl are not good enough to be one of them? Sad!
GaryHamrick: @theroseinbloom @aboynamedart @teresajusino @actionchick I just think of the whole “Nice guys finish last” thing & look @ the ppl lapping me
aboynamedart: @GaryHamrick Ok, that’s a whole other topic. @theroseinbloom @teresajusino @actionchick
miltondavidson: they’re just Emos in denial
teresajusino: @GaryHamrick True. But the flipside’s assuming someone would NEVER feel apart & making them feel that way w/out even noticing. @ActionChick
theroseinbloom: @GaryHamrick well that sounds like a personal issue. @aboynamedart @teresajusino @actionchick
DrSideSteppin: I just find it odd that geeks who were outcast are now trying to bite back by disavowing those they think aren’t geeky enough.
jenniferjoseph_: Majority of geeks/nerds know what it’s like to be an outcast so why push that off on others? Should be more accepting!
GaryHamrick: @aboynamedart @theroseinbloom @teresajusino @actionchick Of course Dylan did the ad. And he got free publicity to a younger crowd out of it.
GaryHamrick: @aboynamedart @theroseinbloom @teresajusino @actionchick indeed it is. and not so much a personal issue, just a bad attempt humor at 4am.
theRealmCast: thats the same thing they said about Punk, your a reject/outcast and just need a group to fit into an be accepted.
aboynamedart: @jenniferjoseph_ As long as there’s been subcultures, there’s been questions about appropriation. This is no different. @ActionChick
theRealmCast: the down side to that mentality is that once your accepted u have a hard time accepting others. You question them at everything
DeathOfAnalog: keep seeing some say feeling outcast key to being geek or nerd. So if geeks/nerds reject you…? it’s called Morrissey syndrome
theRealmCast: whether it be punk rockers,nerds,gamers, whatever,there will always be those who view themselves as royalty in those groups
Zack_Parks: nah, ladies reject me. 🙁
theRealmCast: the real nerds or “outcast” accepts everyone no matter what. Its peoples differances that make us unique and interesting
GaryHamrick: @teresajusino @ActionChick and a very valid flipside. even though it ignores certain social and cultural “establishments” or “rules”.
jenniferjoseph_: @aboynamedart @ActionChick True. I must say that although I’m a geek, I’ve never been outcast so I don’t think that’s a defining chrcterstic
theRealmCast: not our simularities…there I said my peace.
simplyjc2: I think it has become a shift in society- before, geeks were equated to losers; now, you can be geek but not be a loser, per se
aboynamedart: @jenniferjoseph_ It can be. I have friends who were physically pelted with meat by classmates. That informs mistrust, y’know? @ActionChick
GaryHamrick: @aboynamedart @theroseinbloom @teresajusino was already following @actionchick and now following you cats, hope ya don’t mind.
c_johnston: if the geeks/nerds reject you next stop is the furries! If they reject you then there is no hope.
jenniferjoseph_: @aboynamedart @ActionChick Yeah, for sure..it can be. But I don’t think it defines ALL geeks. I was pretty popular.
elmoTK: @bonniegrrl @ActionChick Here we go. It’s little Katie all over again. It’s nothing but hate and bullying #MissUSA #TiredOfBS
johnmarkos: @aboynamedart @ActionChick That’s not what I wonder about people. Instead, I wonder what they’ll be like at 40 or older.
besottedlovers: @ActionChick: People are entitled to be in love with something: music, books, movies, etc. Haven’t we moved on from Stereotyping? So 80s! <3
besottedlovers: @ActionChick: I may be hated for My Common Sense and Geekery; but, I still love who I am. Self Doubt is what kills us. :Os
Luneowl: Unfortunately, being a geek doesn’t mean they don’t have preconceptions about women. That’s drummed into us from an early age.
johnmarkos: …then you’re like an uber-geek! You’re geek squared!
EditorLiam: …you become a Dork 🙂
TheNerdyBird: @Dvann562 I couldn’t until I found that video and then well, all the rest spilled out. NOW it’s bed time! (I hope)
tragedyman: “I keep seeing some say feeling outcast is key to being geek or nerd. So if geeks/nerds reject you…?” …Then you’re me.
johnmarkos: @bonniegrrl @ActionChick Actually, I may go into the business of certifying geeks. My geek cred is unassailable: I totally got picked on.
jenniferjoseph_: @johnmarkos @bonniegrrl @ActionChick Sweet! Is there an application I need to fill out? I have references!
johnmarkos: @jenniferjoseph_ @bonniegrrl @ActionChick No, there’s no application. It’s official. You’re a geek.
jenniferjoseph_: @johnmarkos @bonniegrrl @ActionChick That was super easy! Are you sure I don’t have to spin counterclockwise 13 times or something?
johnmarkos: @jenniferjoseph_ @bonniegrrl @ActionChick No, the hard part was actually becoming a geek.
Nick_Ruth: it means you’re a super geek maybe?
jenniferjoseph_: @johnmarkos @bonniegrrl @ActionChick Is that a serious comment? If it is, then how so? Were you picked on for it?
mithunbalraj: love you twitter discussions, have you considered doing a talk show? 😛
johnmarkos: @jenniferjoseph_ @bonniegrrl @ActionChick Ha, ha, only serious. It’s a lot of work, obsessively following one’s geeky interests.
johnmarkos: @jenniferjoseph_ @bonniegrrl @ActionChick Yes, I was picked on, but that was a long time ago, and I’m over it now.
chaoticcalm: What if you feel loved and accepted…does that mean you can’t be a nerd? #whoamI
jenniferjoseph_: @johnmarkos @bonniegrrl @ActionChick I only ask b/c it seems like lots of geeks were picked on. My classmates were pretty accepting of me.
captainvsk: the solution to everything. There are hot nerds and not so hot nerds.
captainvsk: hot nerds like @feliciaday @caseymckinnon and yourself. And less hot nerds like, well nevermind.
madmechanic78: “@ActionChick: I keep seeing some say feeling outcast is key to being geek or nerd. So if geeks/nerds reject you…?” makes u SUPERGEEK!
ActionChick: RT @theroseinbloom if we’re playing etymology, then we should all get mad when somebody calls us nice.
Tekknight: @theroseinbloom Not many know this about me, but I am a bit of an etymology fan. Never knew that the word nice had that origin!
jonathanhilluk: @bonniegrrl I’ve been called a geek in the past, but I’ll decide if I am or not, thanks, no-one else. 😉 And I thiiiink…yes.mithunbalraj: @ActionChick love you discussions, considered doing talk show?
ActionChick: Comic-Con panels http://2.ly/ONLY http://is.gd/SEXYGEEK @mithunbalraj
edibleeats: all this he/she is not a real geek is getting my goat.
DEX1138: IMO being passionate about something, anything, makes you a geek/nerd for that thing.
davegobe: – In my XP, male geeks/nerds are intimidated by attractive females whether they’re geeks/nerds or not. Not rejecting, just shy.
rage_A: I used to get called a nerd right before I physically got beat up. To hear it used as a fun/cute(hip) term doesn’t grok IMHO.
jayeofmanyhats: I feel geek is a state of mind that anyone can have about subjects no matter what they look like. Nerd is a look. My 2cents
sfuller94: geek test….what’s the difference between a differential and an integral..?
Pat_M514: The male nerd-dar is not very precise. It probably has to do w/proportion of blood to the brain at the time.
sparkelj: I know I’m late to the party but: late adopters are not necessarily posers. Just not early adopters. Geek police piss me off.
Majikel: I think most people are geeks really. Just about different things. Jocks are geeky on sports & tell you scores from years ago
CodeMA: they might fit in though? May need some SFX makeup before bed, but otherwise seems viable? 😉
johnmarkos: @DeathOfAnalog @ActionChick Damn right. Sometimes you just wake up like that, and behold! You’re a geek.
Related posts:
* #FFF Fake Fangirl Friday: Geek Girls Exist! Do Fake Geek Girls Exist Too? Is It Fair to Ask?
* Oh, You Sexy Geek! Our 2011 SDCC Panel
* Fangirl Furor: Should Geek and Gamer Girls Go Sexy, Sexless, Something Else?
* You’re No Geek!
* Interview: Why Seth Green Loves Geek and Gamer Girls
* SFX Magazine Interview by Bonnie Burton – Cosplay or Can’t Play
* How Do Fan Convention Experiences Differ for Women & Men?
* Girls’ Guide to Comic-Con with Ninja Tricks
* #FFF Fake Fangirl Friday: Geek Girls Exist! Do Fake Geek Girls Exist Too? Is It Fair to Ask?
* Oh, You Sexy Geek! Our 2011 SDCC Panel
* Fangirl Furor: Should Geek and Gamer Girls Go Sexy, Sexless, Something Else?
* You’re No Geek!
* Interview: Why Seth Green Loves Geek and Gamer Girls
* SFX Magazine Interview by Bonnie Burton – Cosplay or Can’t Play
* How Do Fan Convention Experiences Differ for Women & Men?
* Girls’ Guide to Comic-Con with Ninja Tricks
Considering that for years many geeks/nerds identified themselves as people who were excluded and even mocked by certain people, like the popular kids or mean girls or the cool dudes, this whole notion that an attractive woman has to prove her geek creds or she can’t truly be a geek reeks of hypocrisy. Those people believe Miss USA hasn’t felt their – as you say – “pain of exclusion” and I’d bet that is the farthest from the truth. Everyone experiences that type of isolation in life, and geeks who want to exclude other people from geekdom for any reason need to take a hard look at themselves.
And truly, when is the last time anyone has seen a man’s geek creds been called into question?
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Those people believe Miss USA hasn’t felt their – as you say – “pain of exclusion” and I’d bet that is the farthest from the truth. Everyone experiences that type of isolation in life,
And maybe she has. But that’s not part of the narrative being built around her. I don’t doubt her fandom, but the fact remains that because of her body type and her position as a beauty queen, it’s being packaged as “exotic,” and it gives her a privilege not afforded to other geeks. I don’t think the phenomenon is exclusive to women – an equally faulty narrative is responsible for framing it that way – but it’s part of the discussion.
I keep sloppily weighing in on this with long wishy washy posts and I should stop, but apparently, not today.
I think that the last dude raised an interesting distinction, because I do not doubt that Ms. USA really, honestly and for true, loves science and history. There is nothing about a traditionally attractive figure that precludes her from actually being interesting (it just is not as big a requirement as it might be for the rest of us…).
So, the question is: Is being a fan of traditionally ‘geeky’ things enough to actually make one a ‘geek’? Is there an actual difference between someone who watches Star Trek and ‘a geek’? Because I’ve thought this in that I watched Star Trek but was never super into it. Whenever there is some element that requires knowledge of the canon, I have to ask my friends. But I do watch it. Am I a Trekkie or a casual viewer?
Is it enough to have specific interests? Don’t we all have ‘specific interests’ that we’re just a little more into than most of the people we meet? I actually have a better chance of getting into a meaningful conversation about Battlestar Galactica than I do getting into even a partial conversation about endurance sports car racing. But BSG is considered way more geek than Le Mans. We all have a specific interest, does simply really liking science and history really qualify as ‘geek’? In this respect hasn’t the definition of what we would call ‘geek’ shifted a bit just to mean, “really into x”? If that is the case then isn’t it more a defense of the term rather than an act of exclusion?
To play Freud for a moment there might be another motivation for the frustration. For the traditional geek, the pasty socially awkward goofball with the large bag of dice and complete Lego Stardestroyer in his room at his moms at 35, being a geek wasn’t his badge, it was his excuse. “Well, fine, I’m socially awkward and pasty and mishapen, but the chicks won’t talk to me because I’m too into Stargate and they just don’t get it.” Well, all you pretty chicks that are into Stargate and Star Wars and Star Trek and Dancing with th…too many stars, go back one…anyway, you’re still not dating that guy. You’re off looking for someone like you, an attractive nerd boy. Attractive people have stepped into the scene, but they’re still not giving their phone numbers out to the unattractive people who’ve been there the entire time, so they lash out.
Though, I think there is a fair question in the other direction: To what end would someone ‘fake’ geekiness? Because it’s trendy? Sure, I guess, but really what do they gain? And further, what is lost? If the girl who wouldn’t talk to you is a geek and still doesn’t talk to you, so what? I mean, we may want to avoid that naked lunch moment of realizing that it wasn’t our love of Lord of the Rings but rather our grooming habits or volume problems, but that’s still not the fault of the pretty people in the scene. (though, I go back again to the fact that there have always been pretty geeks, that this is new is a myth about ‘our’ culture that we’ve bought into. I remember going to my first gaming convention at 14 and seeing hot chicks with dudes on their way to play a 10 hour game of Shadowrun with some strangers and thinking, “Damn, now that’s the life.”)
What have we lost? There are two shows based on fairy tales this fall, two series about alien invasions (unless V finally got cancelled due to horriblness), a show about time traveling settlers, Torchwood is getting an Americanization, Dr. Who is as popular as ever, a new show about super powered people, a series about zombies, super hero movies rule summer. “We” won. The world of entertainment caters to us. And it brought women who will dress up like Dr. Mrs. The Monarch. Why again would we be looking that gift horse in the mouth?
I do think that ‘traditional geeks’ have harbor a well earned distrust of the pretty people and I do not think it’s hypocritical of them to act on that distrust even when you see said pretty people try to insist now that they’re ‘just like you.’ Because, pretty people, you’re not. You just aren’t. We’re not saying that your life has been all roses and parades, free of strife or self doubt or even external pressures. It must be hard to balance on that precipice, we get it. But that is not the same, nor will it ever be, as not being allowed in the light at all, to be scorned from said precipice. For a traditional geek (that term is inadequate but you know what I mean) the only time a pretty person is nice to them is when the pretty person wants something. (Remember, for all the supposed barriers broken down in The Breakfast Club, the nerd still did everyone’s homework for them)
But I have to go back to two notions in my last longwinded musing on this. First being, I don’t know that ‘geek’ is a label you get to apply yourself. Maybe, in the empowering movement, that’s what has happened. I don’t know. But I think there is or at least should be a distinction between a fan of something and a geek. Mostly because I think that it does a disservice to geeks to consider me one in a lot of things. There are people more into, more devoted to, ‘geek’ causes than I could ever dream to be and I don’t think I get to take credit for all that shit just because I tivo The Walking Dead.
But, and this is a windmill because geek culture is no different than punk rock or beats or slackers or goths or metalheads or any other social group that struggles for acceptance and then struggles back to retain its identity once in the mainstream, I have to repeat that if you don’t want ‘geek’ to be treated like a status you have to not make it a status by being exclusive about who gets to consider themselves one.
I’m not sure why I keep doing this. I’m sorry. Talk about Ghost Rider, I can go on just as long and it’s funner. Or The Shadow…
“We” won. The world of entertainment caters to us.
Yes and no. Sure, yes, sci-fi is still viable when it comes to media properties. But the people in those parts are still, in the vast majority, white, cis-hetero and positioned as not being “just” geeks. By contrast, The Big Bang Theory has never failed to define its’ geeky protagonists as being Not Like Other People.
Attractive people have stepped into the scene, but they’re still not giving their phone numbers out to the unattractive people who’ve been there the entire time, so they lash out.
I think it goes beyond the phone number thing. But you are correct: more people are stepping into the scene – with the option of stepping out of it. So, yeah, she’s a geek. But should we be expected to look at her geekdom as some sort of validation?
Well, to the first point, it’s going to be a long, long time before unattractive people are in lead roles in Hollywood (I hate using ‘Hollywood’ to mean ‘entertainment’ but it seemed appropriate here.) To paraphrase Lenny Bruce in regards to why cathedrals are lavish, if I live in shit I don’t want to go visit more shit, so to speak. If I’m already imagining a world where magic is real and swords can be made out of light, why can’t I imagine I’m pretty, too? And, I might be in a minority here and subjecting myself to something, but I regard The Big Bang Theory to be a geek minstrel show. (Man, I hope I used the right spelling, otherwise…gross…)
The second point is sort of the old race/queer issue of whether or not people who can ‘pass’ really get to belong. India’s cast system hasn’t figured it out (read any of the complaints about light skinned Indians from Slumdog Millionaire), black culture hasn’t sorted it out (watch Spike Lee’s underrated Skool Daze), and gay culture hasn’t sorted it out (alright, for that all I have is a class in college…) I don’t know that geek culture is going to be able to. We are not as bound to our ‘identities’ the others who cannot more change the color of their skin or sexual preference. Theoretically we could balance our joy for the odder things in life, though why should we?
I think that notions of appearance, of social ability or lack there of, and fandom of oddities should probably be separated carefully. I think what’s happening is two different conversations at once.
But then, sort of revealing their ‘noobness’ to the scene, people are acting like these kinds of divisions are anything new. Watch Fanboy or the convention sketch on Robot Chicken for divisions over Star Trek fans and Star Wars fans (or just google Star Trek vs. Star Wars). Or Kirk vs. Picard. Or advocates of ‘hard sci fi’ and what they think of ‘space opera.’ Or Ren Faire people and SCA people. Marvel readers vs DC readers.
But the ‘hard sci-fi’ people vs. everyone else is the best example, that ‘purity’ movement was here before the ‘pretty people’ arrived. You might even argue that checking your geek cred at the door is a standard initiation, it’s just that pretty people aren’t used to being questioned about shit so they’re throwing a fit. Maybe. But in my life, as an ugly awkward dude, I have indeed been grilled about my credentials. Ever watch two geeks try and ‘out geek’ each other? Old as the hills, man. You bought the ticket, take the ride.
I wonder how long I can hop back and forth over this fence…
I think that notions of appearance, of social ability or lack there of, and fandom of oddities should probably be separated carefully. I think what’s happening is two different conversations at once.
I think one dovetails with the other. Miss Campanella having a fandom is great. But, as I said earlier, she’s in a position where it’s framed as being “exotic.” If she were plus-size, a woman of color, LGBT or otherwise not framed as appealing to certain advertising demographics, we’d never get to hear her story. That’s privilege. It’s not her fault – it’s the fault of the people who put on shows like Miss USA and endorse that kind of body standard to begin with – but it’s the next step in the conversation.
What I think you’re getting at here, and forgive me for paraphrasing if I get this wrong, is essentially a resentment that the label ‘geek’ is being applied in two different tones. When you or I, perhaps, are referred to as a geek it’s at least half pejorative. It is, on balance, a minus. But it has, over the years, become a ‘minus’ that geeks have begun to wear with pride not because we became attractive or appealing, but rather because those in our ranks established the internet and made video gaming an industry large enough to rival film. “We” (and I use scare quotes here because I had little to nothing to do with it) changed the world. The idea, then, is we…fuck it, they…took that minus and shoved it right back up the asses of everyone who brushed them off.
But regardless, when the label ‘geek’ is applied to us schlubs, it’s still at least half pejorative. But when it’s applied to a ‘pretty person,’ the pejorative is gone. The only ‘suffering’ for your geekiness is the resentment of all the other long suffering geeks.
But I think I have to go back and say, isn’t this just regular ol’ tried and true resentment of pretty people in general? I don’t know that her situation would be different then if she said she was a rude grrl, yes, if she wasn’t pretty we wouldn’t know who she was. But I don’t know that it is a reflection of geekness or non-geekiness.
Though I would say that there is an element of show vs. tell. Like, would we be having this discussion if instead of just saying she was a geek she performed the Super Mario Brothers theme on piano for her talent portion? I wouldn’t dare try and put my ‘geek cred’ up against the Action Flick Chick and it’s not like she’s unattractive.
As any sub-culture goes mainstream there is always a backlash against ‘scenesters’ and with some of the perhaps undeserved and unresolved gender issues that has gone on in what was largely a frustrated male dominated group that gets compounded. It’s like we put up a ‘No Girls Allowed” sign but never really meant it and now don’t know what to do when people are ignoring it.
I don’t know, I’m sort of pretzeling myself because at my core I hate gate keepers to a scene and don’t see any reason why a pretty person can’t also be an obsessive fan of something ‘weird’. However, while I don’t agree with it entirely (even though clearly I have some lingering issues with it), I also understand where people are coming from with their resentment and mistrust of the ‘beautiful people.’ And certainly the moniker ‘geek’ without at least a taste of the pejorative does seem like a rip to those that had to carry that pejorative on their backs. The Action Chick retweeted a question along the lines of “I wonder what all these pretty people were doing when we were getting the snot beat out of us in HS.” (though I have to diverge here a bit again to say that upon re-evaluation, I was actually pretty well liked in high school, people did come to my defense all the time, and no one liked the people who picked on me any more than I did. My own self loathing made high school suck way more than it should have…but I guess that’s a conversation for the couch…)
So, basically, still hoping the fence here.
But I think I have to go back and say, isn’t this just regular ol’ tried and true resentment of pretty people in general?
That is incorrect. Recognition of social privilege does not equal envy, or self-hatred. Nor is it an endorsement of a social disparity.
It’s like we put up a ‘No Girls Allowed” sign but never really meant it and now don’t know what to do when people are ignoring it.
While many male geeks are undoubtedly guilty of practicing exclusionary behavior, it’s always interesting to note that male consumers get the bear’s share of the blame, while the corporate culture that promotes and practices the same behavior seemingly gets let off the hook. I hope we get as many columns bashing Dan Didio this week as we have defending Miss USA.
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Alright, fair cop. I certainly didn’t mean to imply self hate, envy, or in fact an endorsement of social disparity. I guess I can see how the words I did use got you there, so I won’t quibble. But I don’t know that this is where the line is drawn, that this is that road too far that a beauty queen uses ‘geek’ to describe how she likes history and science. Look, I’m with you for the most part in that there are two different worlds, I just want to make sure we’re having the same discussion. If it’s about privilege, then let it be about privilege. Let’s talk about the scholarship she gets for being pretty instead of her aptitude for science and history, because that’s what she’s being rewarded with–not using ‘geek’ to describe her fondness for history and science, that was a throwaway. A throwaway that people who have been labelled ‘geek’ in their lives and have struggled to own the term might resent for various reasons, but a throwaway all the same. And so the spirit of what I said I believe still stands, even if it’s not what apparently was implied.
And I don’t agree that the audience gets a disproportionate amount of the blame. Now this may be selection bias, I went to a hippie college on the coast of California with an adorable gastropod as its mascot, but a great deal more of the discussions I’ve been in about the way beauty is portrayed, used, and marketed have been focused squarely on the producers rather than the consumers. Laura Mulvey’s famous essay wasn’t so much about the audience but that the film maker’s tendency was towards the male gaze. The trials of magazines for women that do not try to sell them on make-up and ’15 ways to get a man’ are not about a lack of audience but rather a lack of willingness of advertisers to do anything but sell women products that save them from being the ugly, lonely creatures that they want them to think they are without said products. I believe that a great deal of the narrative is focused where it should be, on the people who think that the only choices we want are beauty queens and the only demographic worth a damn are horny men.
And I agree, that it seems silly that with the growing number of women, attractive or otherwise, willing to embrace geek culture, that DC would not want to tap that growing market. Especially since their licensed property Smallville succeeded by essentially catering to both. But my entire life DC has struggled with relevancy, so this move doesn’t seem new to me.
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On our blogsite http://superhotnerds.com/2011/05/nerds-vs-geeks/ – we broke down our definition of Nerds vs. Geeks.
Here’s our take:
A nerd, to me, is an individual of high intelligence that has studied a specific field, becoming an expert in said area to either better their own life, their professional industry or the world. They are analytical yet creative, slightly OCD, may come across elitist and typically organized. Nerds enjoy living comfortably, and are charitable sensitive people who enjoy all that life has to offer.
A geek, to me, is someone who devotes all their time obsessing over something they would basically die over (a mere exaggeration) amongst a community of equally alike enthusiasts, i.e., comic geeks, sci-fi geeks, video game geeks, film geeks, techies, foodies, etc. Geeks are into things that don’t necessarily have relevance to making their personal life or the world a better place, they’re basically overzealous hobbyests. They know the entire history and can reference many justifications to whatever they’re geeking out on.
I can say that I’m a nerd who may “geek out” on gadgets, cosmetics and shoes from time to time but my whole world doesn’t revolve around these things.
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Firstly here, the distinction between Nerd and Geek blurs down to one ultimate distinction: Nerds delve towards the logical and the scientific, and Geeks delve towards the creative and artiistic. Most people are a mix of the two rather than being one or the other. There’s a beautifull rainbow of Dorkdom out there folks with many shades to behold.
Secondly, you may have History Buffs, you may have History Nerds, but you may not have History Geeks. Nerds deal in real history, Geeks deal in fantasy. The balance between the two is Mythology. That two out of three of her choices were fantasy and not history DOES indeed confirm her Geek leaninings, but golly it also reveals her igorance of what she’s talking about… I declare that the interview part of the pagent was a failure, take the crown back!
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